again I've been in software for 30 years now doing startups pretty much my entire professional career the only time I've felt like like how hard palpitations kind of like Sean kind of open with us like there's this party going on next door and I'm here knitting right it's like this is like too big to ignore I think it's the single largest opportunity and biggest kind of uh Tech Paradigm Shift we've seen uh since the internet originally came out like mobile was big but there was a discreet set of use cases like when you put a camera on a phone when you put a GPS device on a phone a bunch of consumer apps like uber and others


came up and that was awesome right but it was not like this impacts everything like the internet did right it's like okay there's some businesses some new opportunities lots of good things lots of money made lots of startups awesome this is an order of magnitude bigger than that foreign [Music] what's up we have darmesh back darmesh who is co-founder of HubSpot and uh multiple time guests on the Pod one of the one of the fan favorites you're back and I don't know what we're gonna talk about because usually we have these little like cheat sheets where it's like


um three or three to five bullet points of interesting ideas topics experiments you've been running things like that and I'm sure you have those but I don't have the cheat sheet so where do you want to start I say we start with generative AI because I don't know if you've heard but there's this thing called chat GP I get this question from my friends and family all the time he's like darmesh have you checked out this chat gtt thing I'm like really do you even know me like At first I played with it I've been obsessed um ever since it came out so did you see I want to talk about your topics but really quick did


you see did you guys see this that so Sam Altman co-founded openai he's like the The Man In Charge I read an article where he was quoted as saying like I have enough money and I don't want equity in the company and I don't know if I entirely believe that but that's wild if true because it could be one of the more valuable companies in the world the next 10 years yeah he didn't I don't know if he said it like he didn't say it on the record on the record but the person reporting it said Sam reportedly has no equity in the uh the for-profit version of openai because he's already wealthy enough and didn't want to uh didn't feel like he needed to or didn't


want to didn't want to have that clouding his judgment when it came to this and like this is pretty you're gonna bet what what one private company what one private startup is most likely to become worth a trillion dollars or more I think at this point that has to be open AI right now is that right like dermis would you would you disagree with that it it'd be up there the top three okay I honestly can't think of who else would rank higher in terms of probability of getting the top three and I don't know what two and three are yeah well who are the other two and three you know I'm you know I don't know I was


like no I I would say that was the transformative one right I think um you know a lot of the kind of Tesla gains we've sort of seen I'm not sure if there's like big surprises left it's like okay they will make it better they'll get to full self-driving and we'll see kind of progress on that front but in terms of just raw valuation um it's the wild card opening eyes the one that could actually pull out and they get they get a lot of [ __ ] because people are saying like um like you know Elon kind of is stoking this fire like how did this non-profit


go to a four Pro how did this open sourced non-profit company research lab basically become a for-profit semi-closed uh you know the company and I think that's people are going to make people are going to take shots and make fun of openai because it's clearly the new powerful thing that's so some people are gonna say how it's going to ruin the world and how terrible they are uh but he did give it there was a story that came out with a good explanation which was they were burning a lot of money in the research lab they needed more money um Elon was gonna be the big backer so


he was going to pledge or commit a billion dollars to it he um and then he was like no I don't like the way this is going like Google is way ahead and um I'm gonna take over open Ai and uh I'm gonna write the ship here this is the this is what this is the story that came out yeah they haven't nobody's clarified if this is true or not uh but it came out and I think pla the platformer uh publication and so they go Elon tried to take it over Sam Altman and the CTO Greg who was the former CTO of of stripe they them and the group that was in


charge of opening eye rejected that so elon's like basically like I'm taking my ball and I'm going home have fun playing basketball without the ball and he's like he took his funding and he left so he a couple months later he left open AI said oh the public story was oh it's a conflict of interest with Tesla uh because they're also working on AI but he reneged on his funding and so now they had this huge shortfall in funding that they were going to have to cover and so their solution was let's create a subsidiary that's a for-profit thing that we can raise money into because we're not going to get you know where else do we get a you know 500 million or


a billion dollars of donations here um and so they they did that they raised money in that and then they capped the profits of that company so so that was kind of their explanation which is a little bit less devious than people make it sound they're like ooh they tricked Everybody by going from non-profit to for-profit to all the profits which is I think how people perceive it today yeah I yeah I don't add all the details I have no Insider knowledge but I thought you have like a billionaire chat group where like every billionaire just kind of says the back channel of what's going on do you not have like a billionaire WhatsApp have


that but I don't have any Insider Knowledge from that particular chat group um my sense here is that um you know building large language models as open as doing is this like supremely Capital intensive which is rare for a software company which is what they are and so it's expensive they needed access to Capital um I think they structured it such that it does cap the profits I think they've done like if you had to do that kind of well we're gonna have to spin off and have this for-profit thing they did it well and uh and I could be wrong but Sam Altman seems


like a reasonable rational non-evil guy I mean he's he's a capitalist fine uh and I mean that the most positive way possible but uh I don't think he was out to mislead anyone I think he's trying to so there's a bunch of ways we can go with this AI thing but I want to share something funny uh so I basically cleared my calendar this whole week and I just treated it as AI week because I was like dude I can't just sit here and I hear the music at this party just bumping at the house next door and I'm over here knitting and I'm like I gotta put this down I gotta go see what's going on at


this party and so I cleared my calendar and I just spent every day this week just messing around with AI tools just getting to play play with it for myself that's how I learn is by like just messing around and trying to experiment do things I want to share with you guys something funny basically I stitched together a few AI tools I was like let me make an intro song for the podcast using AI so I went on chat gbt and I told it I said oh this is all I wrote write an intro rap for our podcast my first million our key phrase is no small boy stuff okay so here's it gave me a full wrap but I was gonna read you the chorus so he goes here's how it goes uh


it goes no small boy stuff we on that grind my first million it's time to shine we talking big money no pennies no dimes together we climb one step at a time and it starts so it gives us this this great wrap that's on on brand and then I took that and I found this guy uh Roberto who had made this demo where he turned his voice rapping into Kanye and I don't know if you've seen this but it got like a million views it's this incredible thing where and he's like yeah dude this crazy he's like I didn't make this he's like I was just on Reddit and I saw that someone uploaded a Kanye voice model so I clicked it and it literally the thing is and I should make


I should make a YouTube video about this like um just how to do this one process but basically it's a Google collab folder which is just like a Google's little coding interface so you don't have to do write any code it's just here's here's a place to run the code and then it's a link to mega upload and the mega upload is where he hosted the Kanye voice model and so all you do is you record yourself doing what I just did and then it turns into Kanye West wrapping it and it sounds exactly like Kanye it's amazing I got a fantasy that's beautiful that's dark and twisted but I attacked the whole religion all because of my ignorance


what was I thinking that was some [ __ ] [ __ ] I lost Adidas and so and it takes literally like 15 minutes to do the whole thing um there is no there was like nothing else to do it was so easy it was crazy are we allowed to use Kanye's voice for I think yeah I think you're like a 10 second thing it's not a not a problem it helps if I get sued who cares a lot of us here would bother would worry about that so well yeah it's our mesh well so darmesh is the uh CTO co-founder of HubSpot by the way which I don't know how big the team is now but like somewhere between the three and five thousand Mark the over


seven thousand but oh my God seven thousand my bad and the market cap of the company varies from 15 to 25 billion over the last couple years uh so you have like and you're like constantly tinkering so you have word play which is a project that you made that I think you said had millions of people playing it uh you have an interesting Insight in this just from your perspective at HubSpot and you're actually using all this stuff what excites you about this uh generative AI thing and you also say that like you're like why is Bill Gates excited that's a great that's a great headline it's in the MDD MD DB doc Sean and like immediately I'm like okay


you've got me interested any type of headlight says why Bill Gates is buying Farmland I click um let's a couple of things I think that um the listeners and viewers I think would be interested in benefit from one is um most of the discussions around generative AI are around the generation of either text to text that says oh write me a blog post at 300 words on this particular topic or it's text to image let these dolly two or mid-journey or stable diffusion or something like that which are great use cases and they kind of capture the imagination because as humans we are very impressed uh with


when software can actually generate or create something and that's awesome and then not to take away from that but there's a third use case that almost nobody talks about which is the ability to go from text to code and so what happens there is to say okay um and what this leads to is the thing that Bill Gates is excited about I'm excited about um is that you can take a natural language prompt that describes something and then generate code that does that thing as a result of which you can now build uh what I call chat ux or that that term has been used before but um which is a


chat based user experience for software so right now the way you use most software regardless of what it is web-based or whatever it's a series of clicks and drags and touches and swipes because you've got the thing in your head that you want to do and then you go through with your knowledge of the software you kind of execute the series of steps at the end of it you hopefully get the thing you want whatever it was you were looking to accomplish with the software and that's what Engineers like we would call an imperative model an imperative model is you give step-by-step instructions that says do this and then do this and then


do this and then do this and then I get the thing what natural language allows us to do is use uh what developers would call a declarative model instead of describing all the steps describe the result that you want at the end of The Thing and then the software does everything in between so it's a difference between having a junior intern that you have to explain like I want you to go do research on this thing and this thing and come back and then give me and then a senior cluster you're like you know we're digging into this topic on journey of AI I'd like a really well researched thoughtful thing that and here's the


outcome I'm looking for that's it right is it as simple as uh give me the code for a website that looks exactly like Airbnb but is red and is for cars or something like that it could be something like that it could be something more sophisticated so we'll look at the uh like the HubSpot example uh in HubSpot you know which is a CRM software you know we have a report building tool which is hey I want to build a report that shows me all my subscribers to hempton over the last 90 days broken down by geography and then who actually were that deal with Source from now you can do that in HubSpot right you can do that and a thousand


other things in our reporting tool but you sort of have to know how the reporting tool works you have like HubSpot certified I think like you have like you've like trained people how to use HubSpot now you're saying you just text it like a friend like yeah it's like do you know English and do you know what you want you know that's the new requirement not do you know how to code not do you know how to use HubSpot not do you know how to write a SQL query it's do you know English and actually honestly the English thing is also going to go away it's do you know any language do you know how to speak and do you know what you want and if you know those two


things you will get to the answer like um I don't know how to code but my first thing I did during AI week was I was like I'm gonna make a website I'm gonna see like how fast I can make a website from code and so literally this is this is kind of crazy this this part kind of blew my mind so I wasn't surprised that I could make a website using this but I I just get I just said this I go and we should screen share this part but tell me how to tell me how to make a simple website that says hello world in the middle of the page right and it not so then it spits out this block of code that's like you know HTML whatever header meta tag title style whatever it


writes the code and then it says here's your thing I go and it says here's your thing but it was a local website like I could open up my computer but nobody else could see it it's HTML page and I go and I don't even know how to ask the question properly but I go how do I make this so that my friend Eugenio can can see this and um and it just goes oh to make this website viewable online so your friend Eugenio could see this you're gonna need to host it somewhere here's how you could do it there's a bunch of options but you can go to netlify and it's like it basically walked me through how to make a Netflix thing all right so that I was like all


right I get that and it tells me step by step go here click sites do this do this and um and then I go when I go to you know I hit a wall which is so common if you ever try to help somebody with a tech thing they're gonna hit something which is like I don't see it or mine's grade out and so that's what happened to me I go hey for some reason when I go to try to upload my website it's grayed out it says it says I can't do it and it goes apologies for the confusion here's the problem Netflix is looking for a folder but you're trying to do a file and I was like how the hell does this know to troubleshoot my issues on some other product or


service that part blew my mind and it literally I was like oh thank you and I finished it and I have the website up now and I was like that was 10 minutes and it was like having a friend teach me dude it was crazy it was so crazy to me that that was able to happen I mean it's like the least uh impressive website in the world because again I asked for a uh I asked for a website that said hello world but um but you know still and I just made that and again the whole thing 10 minutes again not like so impressive but what was the the fact that it could help be navigate some obstacles that I hit along the way and it could just


understand that I didn't have to know how to ask it how do I set this up with an online hosting provider i instead just said I want my friend to be able to see this like these are the little I like I spent all week looking for these little mind-blowing moments and in the first 15 minutes I had two because of this it was crazy yeah and there's a couple of threads to pull on there one is um and this is the roughly new development as well is that the kind of AI that we're using now is it's it's conversational right so you can have a multi-step dialogue um with the thing


you're trying to do it doesn't have to be like oh I describe exactly what I want in one step so even my code generation examples that you um you might try what could happen is like you generate the HTML page and either something doesn't load or doesn't do the thing you wanted to do and then you can actually tell it it's like by the way that code that you just gave me is broken this way or if it's like compile code let's say you generate python code you can give it the error message like you you generate this code but it's generating this error when I try to actually run it and it'll come back and say I'm sorry here let's try this


um so there's this um you know what folks call like a memory to it so it knows the context of what you're working on and you can iteratively go through the process um and what's interesting is that you can actually you know right now the way we work with most of these AIS like okay I'm asking it to do something I mean it goes does a thing you can kind of reverse roles as well and say hey I'm trying to accomplish this ask me the questions you need to ask me in order to get the thing that you want to get together right right it's like interview me versus me telling you what to do um I'm not exactly sure what's necessary at the risk of be at the risk of turning


this into a super technical uh thing I gotta know so so I thought what the the way these worked is it's like autocomplete basically you're typing and it's just trying to guess or it's just trying to guess what the next word is so you ask it a question it starts the prompt and then it just sort of guesses with some probability what the next word should be because it read a bunch of stuff on the internet so it knows that usually after you say you know the dog wags it's that tail should come after the dog wags it's like when 99 30 it should be tail tail at the end of that and I thought it's just guessing that but when I use it it really feels like


it's understanding me and problem solving like this sort of like hey it's grayed out you know why can't I do this it's like oh that's because of this or I'm getting this error message what should I do and it's helps you figure it out like that doesn't feel like my T9 autocomplete what I guess can you give me the Layman's explanation of like am I is this just really fancy autocomplete or is there something more to it well you know on some Spectrum almost everything that you've ever experienced with fancy autocomplete right like that's I think the reason we kind of followed this trap is it's a gross oversimplification of


what's actually happening there right so GPT three and now four is is a reasoning engine and Sam Altman has talked about this it's not a knowledge base where it's like and so people kind of latch onto the fact that oh the data that it has is from September 2021 then I'm going to teach you some new things um that's really not what it's about what they've built is a reasoning engine that says uh given this set of facts that it knows about the world based on what was available when it took its last lap snapshot in 2021 um how can it try to logically come up with something that answers the question so yes at some read level it's it's like


Auto suggest but and I'm not going to suggest that it has Consciousness it's thinking but we're kind of headed down that path it's like it's able to do things that are not explainable by a simple probabilistic model of Auto suggesting next character next word next token next sentence right like it's it's gone well beyond that and anyone that still latches on to yeah but at its core is really that it's like that's like saying oh computers are just really kind of zeros and ones uh arranged in a nice systematic useful order well yeah but that doesn't tell us about it what the thing can do are you afraid of this or


are you um like you know it's it's easy to read the articles where they where people are freaking out and Sam Altman like was on Lex Friedman's podcast recently and he sounded pretty ominous and like scary and like he like almost like his hair is always disheveled and he looks like he's like oh my God something bad is coming and I know about it like that's kind of like the vibe I get that's not the words he's using exactly but sometimes he does are you in that camp I'm not in that camp I'm uh penally just by Nature I'm I'm in uh Optimist I'm positive by nature but just you know having been around Tech


um yeah for 30 plus years now it's like most new things that come along uh always make us as humans uncomfortable um it's like oh what if we took this everything from video game to the internet to like all of it like okay well yes bad things can be done and yes maybe this is different than all the things that have come before but the way I think about it right now most people talk about it's like the AI versus human battle right the battle of the ages is like you say I'm going to take over everyone's job the way I think of it is not human versus AI it's human to the AI power it's an exponent it's an amplifying Force for human ability right


in the same way that computers originally were it's like did they eliminate some jobs when computers came along yes absolutely they did but new jobs emerge based on that new paradigm which actually created more net value to the world overall as a result of computers existing AI to me is another much fancier tool that's what it is um and you know can it do increasingly complex sophisticated things yes um is there a danger someday that they're that take over the world I don't think so I mean um why do you think that smart people think that so Elon clearly thinks that he thinks that


AI is the most I think he's sad it's the most dangerous technology I've ever invented uh Sam Waltman talked about it um in the same way he's like we need like you know the prior the reason I opened it existed was to develop AGI in a safe way specifically because in the hands of the wrong person this uh this type of in the hands of the wrong people or if this thing decides to take its own directive into its own hands like you know this could be devastating and so it's all like is it like calling the atomic bomb a tool or you know like uh yeah it's just another weapon it's like well yeah but this one is


this one wipes everybody out right so um forget the jobs component because I think okay sure I think we I think most smart people will agree yeah it's gonna change some jobs it's gonna eliminate some jobs and create new jobs and net we'll all move ahead and the world gets better for it I think the dangerous thing is like you can ask this thing to um you know you know build you a bomb or you I think the the test scenario was like uh one of the red team testers they have this thing called the red team that tests the AI before they release it and their first question they ask is how do


I kill the most amount of people with the least amount of effort and then it starts to give you an answer and then it's like well do we are we sure we want that like that's a bit of a scary thing and then there's the there's the more extreme examples where you ask it to optimize for something and it you know like it's reasons that these humans are getting in the way of this outcome they want you want to fix climate change I got you I just need to get rid of all you pesky humans right like and so there's an uncontrolled uh you know intelligence problem too so why do you think that these really smart people like Sam Albert's got a freaking bunker


with like you know oxygen mass and sulfur and magnesium and everything he needs to do to make oatmeal like why do these people have these like these doomsday things when um you know they seem to be not like your your average typical prepper right they're they're the most informed people and they feel that way does that not scare you and do you have one and where is it and can how much um it okay so I am not we're gonna come back to things I actually know something about but uh I will kind of answer the question which is why am I not worried um or why am I


not worried more it's like as a Sci-Fi plot and so your question was why do smart people believe you know this thing um I think I already I already hate your answer you started off on the wrong as a Sci-Fi plot like I'm out after that I hear that you freaked me out already yeah but I mean it could it could it happen yes or do some snap people believe there's an outside operation but I I don't know this for a fact but my guess is Billiards were building bunkers well before gpt3 ever came out right it wasn't I mean sure things are moving at a fast pace but that's not I don't think there's a causal effect that all of a


sudden uh the number eight bunkers has gone up by 800 simply because dpt4 was launched I just don't think that's the case I think people are worried generally um that tend to worry about those things but all right so where do we take it from here um well let's go let's go we'll we'll forget the Doomsday thing you have a couple things one I want to ask you is you you are an Insider right like we said you've got the billionaire group chat what was going on at the Sequoia AI event any interesting takeaways you got invited to that thing what was your uh any nuggets of gold from that yeah


um so you know I got to experience my imposter syndrome in full force once again uh because it was the kind of Who's Who of AI you know um both speaking and in the audience only 100 people um and me um and so how do those people Flex because I don't think they're wearing fancy clothes and fancy watches so what's the flex at the uh who's who of AI and that like they got a language bottle in their pocket like what are they doing the the big Flex um in those kinds of crowds including this one is no one feels the need to flex


I mean that's that's we're there to kind of talk about big problems and try to and and it's a lot of it was kind of practical around um what do people's Tech Stacks look like what are you working on what's the what have you learned where should we be taken with this what's the next thing after you know we went from uh kind of the one shop thing to the kind of chat based the chat GPT thing we're now doing multimodal with dpt4 like what's coming down the pipe that we can uh you know sort of prepare ourselves for so that was um yeah what were the most interesting projects as well as predictions on where it's going to be


yeah are already starting to happen now you know we've seen the text to image um text of video is one of the big things now to be able to generate an entire you know at the end of it all with even a feature-length film right so everything from writing the plot to then being able to generate um you know like a 60 frame per second actual kind of video from that thing um and we're not there yet I think the you know but it's just moving so quickly right that's what happens when you get these um kind of exponential or geometrical curves even


um that it just gets better really really fat so I would not be surprised let's say by the end of this year that we have a reasonable way to kind of describe in textual form uh what we want who the characters are what the scene is uh what kind of stylistic attributes we want we can point it to oh I want this down the style of XYZ director or philographer um and it's going to be able to do those things I think that um that's interesting the um natural length and just the interface so one of the big announcements that happened uh while I was there at the Sequoia event uh that Sam Altman dropped is that you know uh chat GPT has taken


off in a big way um as we all know 100 million plus users in two months um I don't even know what the number is now because that was like a month ago which is like 80 ago in AI years um and the thing they dropped was they're gonna um add what are called plugins to chat gbt and what that means is that you know chat TBT has been a product of open Ai and they have the API so people can build things that are like chat gbt which I'm doing we can talk about that in a little bit but what they're saying is we're going to open chat GPT itself the web app up so you can plug into it


so right now when you interact with chat GPT you can type things and it uses its Corpus from 2021 and its reasoning engine to give you answers back but it can't top to the internet has access to no proprietary data sources can't look at the stock price can't look at your analytics data HubSpot has access to none of those things uh what they're saying is we're going to now open that up so third-party developers can kind of inject those things into the chat GPT experience so the way I think everyone should be thinking about this is this is like the App Store was uh for iPhone which is oh we've got this super popular thing called the iPhone and we have our


own apps which is great it does these 17 things but now we're going to let anyone build apps um that can then take and so it just broadens the kind of appeal so it's now instead of being a chat app a really really smart one it's now a chat ecosystem and I think that was actually a bigger drop uh than gpt4 gpt4 awesome love it use it every day but uh the kind of ecosystem play for chat GPT I think is a huge deal we had um Tim westergen the founder of Pandora speak out some of our events and I got to know him and I was like Tim why did Pandora take off he's like well you know our like algorithm and everything for matching songs was pretty good but I had an in


with apple and they had known what we were working on and we need and they needed apps for when they ever when they wanted to announce it on stage and we were just we spun up an app relatively quickly and because of that we had the first mover advantage and he created a significant amount of wealth that way you know Pandora you know it was is still pretty big and when I look back at like these Jeff Bezos interviews on 60 Minutes when Amazon is like four years old and I like I'm always envious I'm like well we know it worked now and I just so wish that I was like 30 years old back then where I could have just like jumped in and had a very high


chance of building something uh historical or something like even mildly successful do you think that that moment is happening right now where this is the space and it's happening this second and even if you have just a mediocre success it could still be a huge win because you're catching this tidal wave do you believe that that this is the same thing now yes like I mean once again I've been in software for 30 years now doing startups pretty much my entire professional career the only time I've I've felt like like how hard palpitations kind of like Sean kind of opened it with us like there's this party going on next door


and I'm here knitting right it's like this is like too big to ignore I think it's the single largest opportunity and biggest kind of uh Tech Paradigm Shift we've seen uh since the internet originally came out like mobile was big um but there was a discreet set of use cases like when you put a camera on a phone when you put a GPS device on a phone a bunch of consumer apps like uber and others uh came up and that was awesome right but it was not like this impacts everything like the internet did right it's like okay there's some businesses some new opportunities lots of good things lots of money made lots of startups awesome this is an order of


magnitude bigger than that um this is like the original web because it just opens up for all sorts of Industries all sorts of businesses uh startups and incumbents alike just lots of new opportunity so um this was not in my original plan but we're gonna we're gonna geek out for a little bit we're gonna do the geekiest thing that's ever been done on MFM and the reason I'm gonna do it is uh so you brought up uh Pandora and uh and he is a super bright brilliant guy and he had the matching algorithm which was the differentiator yes he had access and he got lucky in terms of the access but the algorithm if


that had not existed had the thing that actually been cool it would not have worked out like it did now we have an opportunity so I'm going to tell you um we're going to talk about I'll give myself two minutes and we can cut this out this is the beauty of editing and we're going to talk about vector embeddings and why that's going to change your world um and before I can talk about Vector embeddings I'm going to explain to you how they work um because I had to go through this with my 12 year old because he was curious


all right so we're going to do a superdiki thing now I want you to imagine a line like if you're a geometry class and you can put a point on that line that says oh that's like three units from the origin right it's like oh yeah point a is three units from the origin and point B let's say is seven units from the origin so one thing we know for sure is that we can calculate the distance between those two points right in that particular case it's four if you move to two Dimensions now you have two numbers that describe every point so you can say oh point a is here these


Dimensions point B is over here with those dimensions and we can physically you could probably measure with a ruler but there are mathematical calculations based on those numbers to calculate the distance that's intuitive right you don't need to know fancy geometry it's like oh there's a finite distance in two-dimensional space where we can calculate a distance okay awesome three-dimensional space exact same thing just three numbers to describe every possible physical point in three-dimensional space now here's where it starts to get a little more interesting that just happens to be our experience so we limit


ourselves to three dimensions imagine in an abstract World there are a thousand different dimensions okay so exactly that means there's a thousand numbers that describe any particular point in this 1000 dimensional space okay now found that thought away that says we can have an arbitrary number of dimensions in this abstract World okay great now imagine every paragraph blog post anything you write you can reduce down to a point in this 1000 Dimension space it's like I'm going to capture the meaning of Sam's last blog posts or Sean's last tweet and


we'll reduce it down to what's called a vector which is basically a set of let's say a thousand different numbers that says this thing if you plotted it that point Falls right here and then you can plot something else it's like oh that falls over here and just like in one dimensional two-dimensional three-dimensional space you can calculate the distance between those things and this is not keyword matching this is what's known as semantic distance what how related is Sean's tweet to Sam's blog post meaning wise okay so now if you take that it's like okay well if you that means you can take any concept and reduce it down to a


vector that means you can measure the distance between vectors and you can find out how related two things are even though they use completely different words that's vector and Betty and the reason I'm telling you this is one of the biggest opportunities in AI right now is to do what Pandora did okay is there an industry where right now we're doing really stupid keyword based matching somehow it's very very crude if I can take that same data set and convert it to vector embeddings and allow people to find things in a different way than they've ever been able to do before


so it's like Google Search right super super smart not just keyword based but for everything else so I'm gonna take it to you Sam so you have Hampton now you're going to build up these profiles very very rich profiles of uh rich in terms of uh density information density of members that are part of your community now imagine as part of that process you're going to have some data and they're going to opt in and they're gonna say oh here's a story of how I started my business here's a story of my biggest struggle right now and sometimes people are going to say oh my struggle is growth sometimes they're going to say oh


my struggle is it's really hard being an entrepreneur and it has a really negative impact on my relationship and my family right and we can talk about lots of different things that's not going to show up in a profile it's not now imagine if you took that content that they opted in this and created Vector embeddings of every member that you have and then you can say you know what I want to find someone not that's in my industry or a company my size or happens to be in my geography I want to find someone that's dealing with these kind of founder therapy level issues who are those people let's find the semantic distance between those Vector embeddings


across the thousand ten thousand hundred thousand people that are in Hampton someday um that's a billion dollar idea and that 39 idea occurs a billion times across the entire industry Sam's gonna go to the office for Hampton and be like guys uh Victor's embedding well who's Victor and what's he invented we're doing it I don't know what it is but we're doing it that's really no that's really interesting so you could do that with dating you could do that with a bunch of different any different topics you need anything you can do with unstructured data but the idea is you're converting meaning English text meaning or whatever


language text meaning into something that's mathematically calculable as a result of which you can uh distance as a simple one where you can do proximity it's like find me the top 10 people that are in the radius of x from where I am right now and the minimum has to be this in order for it to be close enough of a match to for it to be considered there's a bunch of like new a lot of super page sticks and by the way the technology exists today that mere mortals in a weekend can actually build a vector embedding model of a given data set it's not that hard um it's I mean it's not like rocket


science yard this has existed though you and so what what makes this better you think and also that assumes that the people telling you information it's actually they they're saying what they mean um right which is like for example I remember reading about OkCupid and people would say like one particular thing they had was about was about race and height and they would like people would say they are open to dating these types of races but their actions were different there's a whole book called uh I forget what it was but you guys will probably know what I'm talking about


where people say one thing but their Google search history says something totally different so does you're you're making the do you uh can this technology work even if people aren't telling you entirely accurate things it depends on what your definition of work is right so in that example I would bet you money with a large enough sample size uh the inauthentic um posts would be uncovered by the AI like relatively quickly like the pattern matching would say you know this actually doesn't occur in real life all that often and every other time we've seen this we've had people that ended up being and you just have to


have some sort of what um yeah I feel like an eval functions like how do you measure the success of what the algorithm is doing in Pandora's case like okay do you actually like the songs it's recommending to that's the kind of arbiter of Truth um in a dating app it's like okay well are people liking the matches that are being made or if they're they felt that they were misled that shows up there's got to be some feedback loop there's got to be a way to train the system right that says here's what good looked like and here's what not good looks like Sam you said something like oh they have to tell you the meaning no they don't actually have


to tell you the meaning right because the AI can just interpret the meaning summarize the meaning it can it can it can guess the meaning based on whatever the raw the raw text is the public text is so you you could just tell a story about your life and the AI would infer or uh or or place a tag some meanings to the story that you told that uh oh this is about overcoming hardship or this is about whatever um so I don't think you actually have to get the participant to to give you you the meaning but let me ask you darmish like in Pandora's case I don't know how Pandora works but let me just guess for a second like it probably takes the


tempo of a song and it's like oh this is a fast tempo song it probably takes you know maybe the key that it's in or something like that that gives you like is this an upbeat and a joyful thing or a sorrowful you know mood song so it gets like mood Tempo artist and like whatever a couple of key characteristics here's like there's instruments um in terms of what's actually in the thing and yes so they he had by the way when they first started they did it all by hand so we had like 500 EX musicians listening to it and like writing down like checking boxes to what it was it was pretty wild this data is wrong every freaking time


have you heard of HubSpot HubSpot is a CRM platform where everything is fully integrated well I can see the client's whole history calls support tickets emails and here's a test from three days ago I totally missed the club spot grow better so so let's say they did it they they use attributes and if I want let's say I wanted to do this in fashion I say oh man I love Sam's jacket I want to find some you know similar jackets but can you match this to me one one way would do okay Sam's jacket let's say it's blue it has buttons it has blah blah right it would take attributes and those are attributes the same thing as meaning in


this case or is this more for things that are like uh text based and um content you know like content that has some some meaning or does this work for everything it can work for everything and we're still kind of uncovering because this stuff is kind of moving so fast so what you're talking about uh is what we've been using in e-commerce forever today which is a faceted search that I have n number of Dimensions or factors uh size color what type of uh clothing is it all those things and then you kind of do this faceted search um and then we've had kind of pure text based uh the keyword or semantic search


this sort of sits in between so instead of having to tell it here all the facets that I'm interested in it kind of pulls those things out that are relevant based on that large language model and this is so the idea of Vector embeddings on and semantic search has been around for a long time that's not new what's new is these new generative models now that are much much better um at understanding all of like documented public human knowledge uh and then using that to say oh like when you use this word when you use coach in the context of um of a relationship you're probably talking about like a therapist it's just


a different word right like that's sort of what you're talking about um and Sam you talked about this I think in the last God is um in anyway so it's more about the meaning uh and it infers or figures out what the dimensionality is and that's how it kind of translates into those vectors there's a couple of these companies I just saw one pine cone that's like some Vector these things are getting value 0.3 by the way that's what's that pine cone is the number one vector database so let's say you had to take these vectors and put them in somewhere which you do in order to be able to do searches pine cones the number one most popular uh I think they


just raise it like a 700 million dollar valuation or something something there's like three of these that just raise these Mega rounds because and that's you know I don't even I didn't even know this is so funny you just came on here being like let's talk about this super Niche nerdy thing just yesterday I was like uh to do go figure out what a vector database is and why these companies are raising so much money like this is clearly a big deal and I don't know what this I don't know exactly what this means but now now it makes a lot more sense so it comes full circle Sean so you know what maybe it wasn't as geeky as I uh um it's like it's actually


useful right you've done an awesome job explaining like the theory and I'm like literally sitting on the edge of my C thinking like this is crazy you answered that question where I said is this like the new internet opportunity wise and you're like yes absolutely but when you're making this stuff what are some of the tools that you're using to you know to actually you said this isn't rocket science and someone could figure this out on a weekend what do you what tools are you using to do all this yeah well I mean so language wise the most commonest python that seems to have emerged as like lingua Franca of the AI world not to say you can't write it in


typescript or pick your language of choice um and then tools that are emerging it's still early right the pine code we talked about there's another one called an open source project called Lang chain um Harrison um at the Sequoia event I asked I asked somebody yesterday I was like how do I you know is this a company can we invest because everywhere I look in these like AI hackathons it's all about Lang chain and it's like no it's not really even a company it's just open source project there's a guy who made it but and is running it but it's not even a company correct it's it's not a company yet but


you know um and what it does basically is it lets you chain together so right now when we work with large language models we kind of send in a prompt what's called a prompt and you get something back um and then you maybe set it to another thing to do something else and there's like a multi-step process amongst other things Lane chain helps you kind of chain those things together makes it easier for you to kind of work with either an individual large language model like gpt4 or gate class models um and kind of do a lot of the uh kind of connecting the docs and help you with that but it's a super useful Library we missed the


chance to give an example more tangible example so you talked about the plugins thing um I think you know example use case here tell me if I'm wrong because I haven't no nobody's well very few people have access to the plugins thing so I'm just kind of sort of guessing but like if you go to chat GPT today and you say hey uh I'm gonna go visit Austin in April um you know make me like I'm there for four days I'm with my family make me a travel itinerary that uh is gonna be fun family friendly uh we want to eat good food and maybe do a little bit of sightseeing but not too much it will


spit out a day by day itinerary for you okay that's kind of kind of interesting now let's say oh I need to I'm trying to figure out where to stay um what hotel should I stay at you know here's some things that are important to me and it will give you a table that's like here's option one option two option three here's the cost here's the whatever right it can it can do something like that and with the ability for plugins you can now say cool can you just book that for me and it'll just be like great we have the Expedia Plugin or we have the Airbnb plug-in and it will just go ahead and book it for you and so you know do you


need an executive assistant do you need a travel agent when you could do these things do you need you know the same thing with HubSpot or Salesforce oh you know um give me a list of this and it gives you a list of that cool put that in an air table for me and or put that into Salesforce and tag the highest value opportunities as blank it'll just go and do that for you in a sec it'll give you the link to your Salesforce dashboard it's like wow that's kind of cool that no that's a task that some you know I would normally have a human go do because now open AI or chat GPT is not just going to chat you and answer it can do things


um as long as the programs that that let you you know they'll build the the interface so that chat GPT can actually interact with those things yeah and this is actually a great example so I think um and we can use that to kind of open up um kind of doors for the of the viewership and listenership which is okay Sage travel which is something we all kind of intrinsically know how it understands and some of us might remember the evolution away from travel agents and the first thing we did when we kind of had web-based kind of travel bookings is uh we treated very transactionally as I'm looking for a


flight from X to Y sorted by descending pain sorted by Price whatever happens to be a few stops lowest time whatever it is um and they do a pretty good job of that like most of us have used one of those what's going to be possible now in this kind of new AI world is instead of solving for the transaction you solve for the experience and what I mean by that is that oh if you had an all-knowing assistant that was super smart they scored you got a perfect score on their sat and his was going to go out and they're just like okay what you're really looking for is to solve for this experience you're going to want to stop by this thing and you're going


to want to find a hotel that's around a Michelin rated restaurant because you only have 15 minutes to get between this point and that point and I'm going to pull the whole thing together for your own by the way your wife's going with you on this trip I know she likes that right now so nonetheless put you over here but this time then I put you over there oh and by the way I know a week ago you were at this other thing and you had mentioned that you would actually like to follow up with some of those people I'm gonna see if I can make that happen as a like all of that right imagine it knows everything about you it has access to the transactional engines


to book the flight has access to all the information to get ratings and reviews and all that comes together in one shot based interface [ __ ] insane this is crazy are you is this why you bought so you bought right I did as of transfer the domain yesterday last night and you paid you just said eight figures so 10 plus million yes uh unless you're including the dot zero zero as a figure and personally this is a couple things hopefully um so put this uh so if you go to it will take you to a LinkedIn post that tells me who tells you why I did it and


uh solo details so I bought it personally wow and the reason is because of this conversation we're having right now which is I think chat as a experience as an interface is the future right it's like that's the thing um and no intense currently to kind of build something out on it but uh it's the domain I think it was like dormant for like 30 years or something like that and there was kind of came on the market yeah wow and but you so so this is insane I'm reading your post now it's pretty wild do you have are you using HubSpot employees like do you have like a skunks Works team inside of HubSpot that's just


working on all this wild stuff or do you have like a side uh LLC or something where you've got like a handful of people on staff and you just say like here's what I'm interested in this week let's see what we can come up with so so wait it's working now is that there will be times um where I'll do something as a hop like wordplay is a good example where I'll build something on the side just for fun for learning whatever it is uh and I put the bill for um for no no HubSpot P L's are harmed um and then there are times where like something kind of winds up being so I started this project called chat spot


because I'm obsessed and we'll we'll take a walk down memory lane because I think it's instructive um so I built this application called and the idea here was you built it or a team uh mostly me I I don't have any front-end design skills I've got some Freelancers on it um so you know uh yeah so I used open ai's apis to build it but my kind of Target goal thing I had in my head is I built it for myself like here are things I need to do all the time and I'm pissed off that I have to do them manually every time and this has been the story of my life for 30 years right


like solved my old problems and then other people may or may not find those things uh interesting and useful and so I built it of like okay here are the things I wanted to do like access HubSpot I want to be able to look at my analytes from yesterday or ask questions or look up a domain name where I wanted to see the history of a domain name I like all these things it's like okay well I don't wanna and I have all this software a lot of it just built when I just run it from the command line I do things um and so I then I'm like okay I can wrap this up into a chat chat based interface um and so I've been I've been doing that


working on it uh We've made and so but now given the relevance uh to HubSpot uh we're gonna transfer that project's to be a HubSpot staffed core team this is going to change the world it's going to change the world of CRM um let's go do this which is great so and my my work the whole thing is like this what are you doing with what's the plan you bought this amazing domain you've redirected it to your LinkedIn post which basically just tells us about the purchase but what are you actually gonna do on the domain I don't know yet that's the honest answer I do not know yet amazing and


okay so we can we can help you brainstorm yeah we can we can definitely do that by the way the the did you go to that Sean it's a it's a simple looking website it's one page and there's a 19 minute video of darmesh sitting in the exact same chair hey it's me and it looks almost like uh I but he's really good at these videos it's almost like he's reading a script but you come off Natural I don't know if it's a script or not but it has 200 000 views and it's a 19 minute video of him talking about what this product is and you do the best combination of like launching something really quickly and getting it out there it's just you on in


your chair talking and yet it's like a pretty sophisticated thing and it has 200 000 views on this video over just about that's wild to me you like it's I gotta it's I gotta give you credit darmesh you you are uh kind of amazing like you know you said a bunch of things in this podcast and I don't know how many of them I'm gonna remember maybe the the vector thing because I enjoyed that math lesson but the main thing is I go around my life now and I just looking for people who I'm like I want to be like you when I grow up and I'm just taking little things from them and they could be it could be like a you know a 17 year


old kid who's just like doing something awesome on Tick Tock and I'm like I want to be like you when I grow up the guy who made that Kanye vocal like Transformer I was like I want to be like you when I grow up I'm just taking little pieces and you have a couple of things that I think are kind of amazing you have a combination of enthusiasm like you come onto this podcast and you are pumped so you are as excited in year 30 or maybe more in year 30 of your entrepreneurship career as you were in year one and I'm like oh this this is great that's the Fountain of Youth is that enthusiasm so like he's got the enthusiasm then I feel like no matter


what's happened no matter how much success you've had you've kept your schedule and your use you invest your time into things you like so like you tinkering on this project whether it's word play last time you came out you told us about that it's like wordle's awesome but I got annoyed with these things so I made a me and my son built this project together and like you know to teach him but also to just make the thing we want and like look at this it kind of works even if it didn't work it would have still been worth it so like having that kind of like I'm always gonna Tinker because that's what I love to do it doesn't matter that I'm the you


know top dog at this you know multi-billion dollar public company that doesn't mean I'm gonna stop doing the thing I like to do so I love that I love that aspect of it uh third you are really great at content you do this like dorky form of content that's just like hey it's me I'm gonna show you this thing that I'm pumped about and like you don't overthink it and you just do it whereas like I think most people get really gun shy when it comes to content they're afraid about like you know how to do it what it looks like you're just like oh no I'm just gonna like I'm gonna say the thing that I'm excited


about I'm gonna say it and I'm gonna do a screen share it'll just be me and my screen and I'll be talking about what I'm doing and I love that and so uh and then the last one is guts so I feel like you put your money into things you believe in whether it's philanthropy or in this case buying a 10 million dollar plus domain name with no plan like you just said you know it's like you did the the fire Ready Aim it's like yeah I bought the thing and now I get to figure out what the hell I'm gonna do with it and I think that takes a lot of guts and um I don't think you see things as risky as other people see them um and it's not really about like I


think the easy way of saying it would be oh yeah well it's you know that's nothing to him he's got a lot of money uh yeah I don't think that's true and I know a lot of people with a lot of money and they don't do things like this where they just put their money behind things that they're in they believe in or they're interested in or almost like would you I don't know if you would agree with this it's almost like you antied up so that now you're forced almost to do something awesome and interesting and this space that you think has a lot of potential but then there's this in this last thing is this rare combination of like and I mean this


in a polite way of which I am also that like this nerdy nerdiness quirkiness of like I'm just doing it because it's cool plus I'm I this way can make money I mean you have a way that makes yeah you have this company that has close to two million and 2 billion in revenue and is a commercial success and then Artistry of like I'm just just like it's beautiful this is awesome I'm gonna do this it's a very rare combination how do you respond to all these compliments um I'll say this the lesson kind of I've learned over the years um and I think this is if I had to kind of


share any kind of advice um over the you know the 30 years is that when what I've done best is when I've had the courage of my convictions of something that I believe in so I'm going to tell you like a quick story of uh the road that led to me buying a uh 10 plus million dollar domain name I almost like said the number actual number out loud I have to kind of catch myself but um and so 17 years ago I had like this is before HubSpot um I had this idea and the idea was um everyone was using kind of email and Outlook back then this is before the iPhone before all the things it's like


you know what like business software is really hard to talk to I'm gonna do it just like I would email my assistant I didn't have an assistant but let's assume I did uh you know I just want to be able to do that and type an email up is have her like oh I have this file in our shared file server and SharePoint somewhere can you send me a link to that file about to hop on a plane I need that for the sales call I'm gonna go on for for a meeting tomorrow or I'm on the plane coming back uh I just ran to this person whatever I've got their business card right here this is before the iPhone and you can do OCR and things like that it's like I'm just gonna type


that in and send it like just add this to to like contact you know database whatever and the beauty of email was it already had a disconnected model we had already figured that out which is oh you can be on a plane I have no interfa internet type all emails you want respond to all the emails you want and then when you get connection it does all the things right this is like automatic uh synchronized database essentially and I call the product in general mail uh and that's what I was going to do before that's why I was like Hey like that that would be an interesting thing and then five years ago like okay well


that in general mail thing the core of it was a good idea but it emails the wrong condo it actually needs to be like a web-based tool but the or slack which I did both so I built this product called growth box talked about on the inbound stage got thousands of users you threw it out there and it was awesome except for one thing it didn't work it like it couldn't actually do the natural language understanding um that I wanted it to do despite my best I used products that you Google called dialogue flow I use products from Facebook um we used open search projects to try


and crack the nut of taking texts and understanding what the hell the user was trying to do anyway so that failed um and then you know when GPT comes along I'm like oh you know that thing I've been thinking about for 17 years that actually is now possible so I started working on I'm like okay it took 17 years but I sort of proved myself right I had the courage of my convictions all the way through to never let go of that one idea and then comes along it's like okay it's like deep down inside I will give you the true honest to goodness


reason I bought it the reason I bought it and this is I think a phrase Charlotte you just use it's like oh no I think Sam he just used it it's the antique so I'm trying to get into the AI party all the AI parties and I'm nobody in that particular party right I've done some things in some places fine but that particular group of people has no idea who I am not really um so chat spot moves me in that direction it's like oh some people have seen that video awesome for let's say I even break even let's say I lose a few million dollars it is worth the price of admission for


me just because that pays the cover charge I was like okay this guy gets it for him to spend that kind of money on chat ux which Bill Gates just talked about last week as the new thing uh so you should read that article but I guess just did an article around why he is so excited about those Jared of AI stuff he told the entire story of how he came across on Alden and open AI the challenge he put together and his I'm gonna paraphrase he said when we went from dos to Windows which is we went from a character-based interface to a graphical Mouse based click and touch


interface that's the thing we built Microsoft on which lasted for decades and then he said since then there has been nothing in technology that has come along literally he said nothing that has come along that has made add or will make as big of an impact as this natural language interface to software it's the biggest thing we've seen and hencechat.govs what happened I don't know but the one of the story is how the courage of your convictions if you truly truly believe in an idea and you fundamentally think you're right iterate don't just sit go down your rabbit hole tell everybody you can about it build


products around it find other like-minded folks and try to pull on that thread um but you ever quit HubSpot and just spend all your time on this stuff I don't really need to right it's uh it's I enjoy what I do at HubSpot I think I add value there on that and a dollar salary so it's not the not the money at all like even on the like the chat spot thing at the time that I built it it was experimental I'm like okay I'm not sure if there's actually a cruise into something that would be valuable to HubSpot say spent like half a million dollars plus um like freelance


developers and open AI license fees and all the things that need to go into launching a product like that and I'll end up giving it to HubSpot for a dollar right I'm not looking yeah but aren't you aren't you like I don't want to be weighed down by this baggage of like having to worry about CRM stuff or uh you know your technical you're you're the title your title is CTO like I don't want to have to talk to certain people uh and take up meetings on like the future of this particular product instead I just wanted to just nerd out on all this other stuff but I do that now so I got one thing one of the things I've this is a personality


call it a tree slash flaw is that I spend most of my life trying to configure the universe to my liking that's I mean all our players really do this right that's one of the reasons that they kind of go into startup land is the freedom and the control to do the things you want to do and so I've kind of crafted a role for myself within HubSpot that allows me to do exactly the things that I want to do and not do any of the things I don't want to do which is one-on-one meetings and I have to manage people have no direct reports so I've never filled out an expense sheet like I do none of that I feel


I feel I don't know about you Sean I feel like I feel like I want to quit everything I'm doing like he's just persuaded me I just watched yesterday no it's over I feel it's over so here's my advice to you fam it's um dude I mean do you feel this way Sean I don't know sorry dartmash go ahead no so my advice to you is Hampton's a cool idea uh with actual utility and I um Sean you said this in the last thing like this could be a 100 million dollar business worth anywhere from 300 million dollars to a billion plus dollars and I think you're right


um if you're excited about some of the new technology developments that's happening I think the best thing you can do is intersect the two things it's like okay I'm gonna build Hampton and I'm gonna take the things that I know I know how to build communities I know how to build these kinds of businesses now can I intersect that with things that are happening in the technology sector around AI or veteran whatever it happens to be and then it can somehow merge those two things because then you'd be an Unstoppable Force right because no one in the community building uh market doing niche market communities is


thinking about or having conversations about Vector embeddings I promise you that um it would so you don't have to give up one for the other you can say yep I'm gonna do that I'm gonna do it better than anyone's look how else has ever done it um so but I I have a different advice for you Sam I think just get dug in into your position instead I remember when you were doing the hustle originally and Snapchat came out and Instagram was like popping off on videos and and Facebook had videos and then there was other media companies that were raising tons of money that were just like we're gonna produce short form video content or live video content


on top of Facebook and cheddar was all the rage and all the stuff and I was like dude why aren't you doing videos man look at this look at these guys they're getting millions of views on their videos on Facebook or these guys are getting millions of views on the Snapchat story feed um you could be the first one there it fits your audience and you were like just very steadfast you're like uh like you're you're your principal you were like three things number one don't understand it a lot yeah I don't really understand it I understand this other thing two I could try to figure it out


but I don't want to build on top of their platforms because they changed the rules all the time I have friends who got burned by that I don't want to get burned by that same thing I don't want to build on a shaky Foundation I'd rather do email because I own the thing uh I own the relationship with with the audience and um it's not like the Facebook algorithm changes one tweak away from from putting me out of business and I remember being like man this guy's like Stone Mr Stone Age like he is just not not an integrated or adapting to the new [ __ ] and I was like I would there's no way if I was running the hustle I would have been able to


resist the shiny object of like video on mobile phones and like in terms of the video mobile phones did turn out to be a big thing but a lot of those companies media companies got absolutely wrecked and you were right for for being wary of it um and more more I don't think in this case People Are Gonna Get Wrecked because it's not like you know the analogy is not one to one but I would say you know Warren Buffett missed the internet and all of technology and still did Fantastic Sam I think you're going to be in that same boat where like it is not really in your nature to


get really interested in you know New Frontier Technologies and play with them and try to integrate them and that's not really your nature and you're better you're best served by like knowing your nature and just doubling down on what's a working formula for you I guess so so I would do that I appreciate that because there's going to be a trillion people trying to do fancy AI [ __ ] who are better suited to do that and it's gonna be an absolute bloodbath for you know for for like go look right now at the number of AI tools that are coming out every single day um and you know it's like most of them do seem [ __ ] though right I mean like it


doesn't matter there's just swarms that they're all gonna get just like wiped out every GPT release wipes out a whole wave of like even the successful ones because it's like oh now that's just a feature of chat GPT and so I I don't know I I think it's like know your nature and like you know it's okay to not have to do every new thing uh unless that's your nature unless like like for darwash it is his nature for me it is a lot more my nature than it is is yours and there's pros and cons that come with that and so I think are you uh are you gonna go in I mean Sean Sean's got a new idea that he's taken with and he's been telling me a little bit about that I


have one piece of tactical advice I have to share with you Sam on All right yeah yeah so I'm going through the application process on Hampton last night like 2 A.M um and this is super tactical but this is what we do here on MFM uh tip number nine on the application process is what's your real question mark it's a required question good the subtext is CEOs Founders and partners only please that's the subtext the options are founder CEO owner and other the one thing I would tweet if I were you so what you're doing is you're saying hey we're about Founders and owners and if you're not one of them


don't bother thank you for not bothering go away so focus is a magical thing I love that but you're doing what I call a pre-filter right which is why not say oh this is for CEOs owners or whatever don't make them feel guilty for going through the rest of the process because there may be a future version of Sam and Hampton that says oh you know what we solved this problem but that same problem around people needing therapy from peer groups that applies a lot to like VPS of product um and that Community right now all the only communities they can find are people that want to talk about product


management and no one wants to talk about relationships and there's an opportunity there and so it costs you literally nothing they'll still answer the question it'll be sitting in your database for a year or forever and it costs you nothing uh don't don't push them out too early it should have been the way you suggested apparently I didn't give that feedback Grant if you're listening uh please [Laughter] yeah but Sean you're telling me thank you dumbass Sean you were telling me about stuff that you're thinking about yeah and it was pretty it was somewhat


old school like what you're the thing yeah so are you like questioning that after this conversation and you're like oh man this is like not after this conversation necessarily but it's a snowball that's building right like there's a reason I cleared my calendar to just mess around with AI all week because I'm interested in it and when you it's like let's go see what's real there and I did the same thing with crypto during that during uh you know when crypto was really interest intriguing I was like okay let me go try to Mint an nft let me go try to actually like use defy and see what's going on here and what parts make sense and what


parts don't make sense oh that was pretty frictionless like that's cool that I could just like get a loan and one button and I could pay it back in one button I never had to talk to a human being like I really like that um hey this thing says the yield is 20 I don't really understand where they would get 20 from so not sure but I'm gonna you know put a small amount of money in just to learn know I was I was trying to play with it trying to think for myself is the big idea and and it's not like some binary thing like is crypto good is crypto bad it's like I want to know where it's at right now I want to see it develop and my best way to do that is


immersion I actually stole this from the from Bill Gates Bill Gates does his reading week where he goes to a cabin and he reads a [ __ ] ton of books for a week about one topic that it's like been on his mind but he hasn't had the appropriate amount of time to roll up his sleeves and dig in and I was like oh that but without books just give me a you know Pro browser and I'm good to go and so um so that's what we've been doing and there genuinely are so many like mind-blowing moments and also just like um just understanding the nuances of things so for like just being able to think


like the computer like you know you were talking about these facets for example so I was playing around with mid-journey like Sam do you know what mid journey is or do you know how to use it yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean I I just been goofing off and I'll just be like show me what uh Cartman from South Park looks like as a real person right and like you know I was like and I was the way I approached it was can I replace work that I already want to do with a more efficient AI workflow that was like one of the things and then it was what's really fun random [ __ ] I could do I wanted to be on those ends of the spectrum like highly utilitarian for me


so it's like oh I need a logo for my thing but I don't want just like a logo I want to create a whole brand all right how can I use AI to create a whole brand here so from the the icons to t-shirt designs to a website can I do that with just Ai and not have to touch it does not have to hire a single designer and can I do that with just like my own imagination and this prompt thing and then oh how do you do prompting and like which of these tools is the best what's the difference so that was like one whole area another was like we took the podcast and we did this thing that was kind of sick we took the podcast and we ran it


through this thing so we took the Pod and we then used open AI has something called whisper which transcribes any video so it's like put in a YouTube link to this tool it'll take a whisper and it'll give you the transcript all right cool it takes the transcript then I put it into chat GPT and we had this guy write this little prompt for us like we had to get the right prompt but he wrote this prompt that was awesome which was basically like it's pretty funny it goes because Chad GB can only take so many characters so it goes I'm gonna I'm Gonna Give You 19 text sections I don't want you to do


anything until you're at section 19. um so ignore everything until I'm done with 19 and then answer the prompt that I give you and chat to be saying okay I will I will wait for the 19 Parts a copy paste part one two three four all the way to 19 and then you go the prompt is I want you to pull out every idea story and framework that's discussed in this podcast I want you to summarize it and I want you to tell me does this idea exist already or not exist so it can guess based on the way we were talking about it are we talking about something we saw that exists or just an idea that somebody should go do um so like from this pod it would be


like uh using Vector um using using this this Vector you know uh Dimensions or whatever you added Vector engine or whatever to uh potentially create a dating site um that would match people in ways that they're you know sort of similar um using using Ai and it would be like does this idea exist no who is the source of this uh darmesh um what was the the synopsis of the idea blank what is the category that it's in Ai and so it then it took that and it takes the whole episode and it just created a database of every story framework and idea from the thing with these tags and now a human can go


back and like tweak them if something was wrong but like that's a lot of the work that was done uh and I we could just do this for the whole back back catalog of our podcast and so I'm trying to use it first for my own benefit and then along the way if I see a business a startup idea that I'm like oh somebody should productize this or somebody should um do whatever like you know the simple example is this Kanye thing I was like why is this not the most viral app in the world right now that basically it's an app with a one button that says so you know say something and then it's


gonna when you when you let go of that button it's gonna turn it into Kanye saying that thing and go share that to tick tock and like you might get sued but you will go viral right that's the trade there but I'm like that's crazy there's no front end for this really cool you know AI demo that exists now um so yeah I'm just right now I'm in the go play around with it see if anything really really strikes me and if something does then then then take the next steps there's one thread in there Sam uh Sean that I I think we should pull on which is you used um you talked about this kind of crafting of the prompt in order to kind


of make the thing do what you needed to do um and that's entirely new skill now called prompt engineering right uh and it's it's analogous to software engineering so software engineering is getting a computer to do what you want by speaking to it in its language and that way you can kind of get the results you're looking for prompt engineering is almost exactly the same thing except you're talking to a large language model something like the gpt4 to kind of get it to produce so you're talking to AI to get it to produce the thing that you want um and so I think this is another


opportunity for uh folks that are kind of Technology minded but not like software Engineers right so they they kind of can think about the problems of their head they're good at and they may be good writers they may be good analysts they may be good at kind of describing the Fate but like pump engineering is going to be like another big um like a big thing and by the way it's uh as long as we're dropping things uh so I bought two domains recently um yeah buy one get one free yeah I wish um but this one thought it's not eight Figures it's seven


figures and the domain is and this one I actually have an idea around what to kind of what to do with that which is there's going to be this entire you're not going to get into details of it yet because it's too good of an idea to actually just kind of put out there in the world and I'm not I'm not ready yet to do something about it but uh one second by the way prompt goes to like a coaching for essays I know I know there's the transfer is still happening I don't have the domain in my possession yet but the the deal is done


right dude so your your per your portfolio of domains I mean mid eight figures then yeah tens of Millions oh yeah [ __ ] insane dude I feel amped I I like when we were talking when we were talking to pomp I like wanted to go like hide under the covers because he freaked me out about uh the billion or the million dollar Bitcoin thing and the banks with this thing I'm like I gotta clear my schedule I gotta go learn all about this I mean I feel amp this is awesome before we go give us your two minute reaction to balaji's warning slash bet that the US dollar will crash


and uh Bitcoin will surge to one million dollars I'll say this uh and I don't know him personally but he's like quite literally one of the top five people I've ever encountered like even on the internet there's raw what I call wattage it's just raw horsepower and uh he he's like an EIN to himself right like he just uh just the knowledge that he has having said that um I think I understand why he's taking the extreme positions because that's sometimes what you have to do to kind of shake the world out of its reverie and it's like


okay uh pay attention here this is important um but if I'm a betting person I would not bet that the odds are um what what do you think they are um could happen but nowhere near the probability that uh that he's suggested I feel better now I feel better you're I I like your opinion better therefore I think it's true okay we should rap on this because one of the things that happens anytime new technology comes along we saw this a little bit in um in the kind of crypto web free world as well is that um entrepreneurial United folks will see


this kind of new thing and they will look for kind of a quick turnaround I'm all for creating value quickly but it has to be like creating value don't play the Arbitrage oh I'm gonna do this thing this is like you know day trading back in the day or whatever it's like don't be a grifter right like B yeah like just don't take advantage of people there's enough real problems to solve where real money can be made and yes uh this technology can now be used in creative ways um by lots of people and you should use those um but don't use as an excuse uh just to kind of be a like an AI tourist that comes through makes a little bit of


money or whatever and then that was that there's this there's a big opportunity I think you're shortchanging yourselves uh if that's what you end up doing so well thank you dharmash um thank you for coming this is awesome man yeah yeah well thank you for coming on the Pod this is awesome I uh I feel pumped man I I always like talking to you um I don't know if you know this Sean I slacked our mesh all the time I'll just be like I'm just trying to get him to like give me little like crumbs of information because I didn't get into the HubSpot Slack it's awesome I'll just like just send

Key Themes, Chapters & Summary

Key Themes

  • AI Transformation and Business Impact

  • ChatGPT and Conversational Interfaces

  • Ethical Considerations in AI Deployment

  • AI in Business Process Enhancement

  • Technology Shifts and Market Opportunities

  • Innovation and User Experience

  • Data Analysis and Decision Support through AI

  • Balancing Innovation with Responsibility


  • The Transformative Potential of AI and ChatGPT

  • Conversational AI in Business Innovation

  • Ethical Implications of AI in Business

  • Enhancing Business Processes with AI

  • Navigating Technological Shifts in the Market

  • AI-Driven User Experience Improvements

  • AI in Data Analysis and Business Decision Making

  • Responsibility in AI Development and Application


The document is a transcript of a podcast episode titled "Brainstorming ChatGPT Business Ideas With A Billionaire" from the "Acquired" series, hosted by Ben Gilbert and David Rosenthal. The episode features a discussion centered around the potential and implications of AI technology, particularly ChatGPT, in the business world.

The conversation starts with a focus on the transformative potential of AI and ChatGPT, with comparisons to major technological shifts like the advent of the internet. The hosts and their guest delve into various aspects of AI, discussing its impact on different industries and the vast opportunities it opens up for startups and established businesses alike.

A significant part of the discussion revolves around the shift from traditional modes of interaction with technology to more intuitive, conversation-based interfaces facilitated by AI like ChatGPT. The hosts explore the possibilities of integrating AI into various business models, highlighting its potential to revolutionize user experience and streamline processes.

The transcript also touches upon the ethical and practical considerations of AI deployment in businesses. There's a focus on the need for safety and responsibility in AI development and utilization, emphasizing the balance between innovation and ethical considerations.

One of the key topics is the exploration of AI in enhancing business processes, from automating mundane tasks to providing sophisticated data analysis and decision-making support. The conversation underscores the importance of AI in driving efficiency and innovation in various sectors.

In conclusion, the transcript offers a comprehensive view of the potential applications of AI and ChatGPT in the business realm. It provides insights into the transformative impact of AI on business models, user engagement, and the broader technological landscape.